My Experience with 1-800-4MY-XBOX [Archive] - Achieve360Points.com Forums

Speaker Ender

October 12th, 2007, 05:18 PM

Jon, thanks so much for posting my article. As you know, I'm a big fan of the Xbox 360--even though I own both a PS3 and a Wii as well. More than anything, I just want a resolution.

If anyone can forward this to someone at Microsoft who can take care of my problem, I'll be back to singing Microsoft's praises in a heartbeat! As it is, it's kind of depressing to be going home to play Heavenly Sword or Wii Sports when all my buddies are going home to Halo 3. :(

UPDATE 1:
Hi, everyone, I just wanted to give you an update. One of you, who asked not to be named, gave me an email address of someone at Microsoft, and I sent a message last night. Today, I received a phone call from Microsoft Xbox Support, and it seems like things are going to be resolved soon.

He explained, in great detail, how a series of events lead to my service ticket dropping through the cracks. Apparently, my case was the perfect storm (multiple tickets opened by accident, the wrong ones closed, incorrect notes, etc.) and happened during a brief window where it was not caught in the regular audits--and so is unique and in now way typical.

I have been given a date by which I should receive a working console (November 2nd--no later), I have been assigned a Xbox Repair and Replacement specialist who will check the status on a daily basis, I have been given a direct extension that I can call for updates or if I have any questions, and I have also discovered why my content does not work, and that the content on the new console will function properly.

Also, he explained to me the safeguards that are in place to make sure that this does not happen to others--as I said, I fell through the crack as some of these were being implemented and a few policies were being changed.

I will keep you all up do date, but after my conversation today, I am pretty confident that I will finally be taken care of.

ANOTHER UPDATE:
I have just started a new thread for my most recent update: http://www.achieve360points.com/forums/showthread.php?p=764127

Okay, this is to the point of absolute absurdity! As if this (http://www.achieve360points.com/articles/my-experience-with-18004myxbox/) wasn't enough, I just had Xbox 360 #6 die.

The fourth Xbox 360 that Major Nelson helped me to get, died shortly after, and I had it repaired (note REPAIRED--not replaced) within a week. A few months later, it started freezing, and he helped me get that one repaired quickly as well. Now today, less than 45 days after getting it back, it freezed while playing Texas Hold 'Em. You know? The graphical XBLA cpu hog that is poker!! When I restarted, the lights come on, but nothing happens--no RRoD or anything.

I cannot even express my frustration at this point! I'll make a video showing what is happening sometime this weekend... I'm just ****ed and want to vent right now.

Nbag3

October 12th, 2007, 05:38 PM

I too have had trouble with getting points refunded. Its been a month since they last called me and every time I call them the put me on hold for over half an hour and then hang up.

Omega2486

October 12th, 2007, 05:43 PM

God damn man! You put up with this bull**** for 2 months? You have patietnce beyond that of mortal men, I would have filed a suit against Microsoft a month ago. I also find it disgusting a Tier 2 agent in a multi-billion dollar company would have the BALLS to hang up on a customer. I have my own fair share of horror stories with Verizon and Microsoft when it comes to customer support issues, but nothing anywhere near what you went through. For example, when I had my account stolen I called 1-800-4-MY-XBOX to cancel teh account. I cancelled it, then called the Credit Card company and had that cancelled. Over the next few days I noticed I've been getting some e-mails saying that 5000 MS points could not have been purchased. After three days, I called 1-800-4-MY-XBOX again, only to find out that the Credit Card was NOT cancelled on the account! The only reason that the points were not charged to the Credit Card was because we reported fraud to the Credit Card company. Basically, if I had relied solely on 1-800-4-MY-XBOX, i would be up to my ass in debt. You have my deepest sympathies Speaker, and I hope that at some point you will get this resolved. If it's advice you want, I'm sorry. You did all you could besides going to India and shooting the place up. You stood firm, but they spat in your face. The reps now ignore you, and I doubt you will ever be able to speak to another Tier 2 agent, let alone a Tier 3. If you want something to do, may I reccommend picking up a copy of Metroid Prime 3: Corruption for the Wii? It is a great game, parelell to Halo 3 single player wise. In your defense, I will personelly call up 1-800-4-MY-XBOX and see if there's anything that can be done for you, though odds are from what I said to them when my account was stolen, they want to just blow me off too. Again Speaker, good luck man. I'm praying for you!!!!

-Omega

twan69666

October 12th, 2007, 06:00 PM

Wow, wow, wow.

I wish that there was something that I could do for you because after readin that I just feel bad. Hopefully someone from MS reads this and his able to help you. Im going to see about getting this posted at doom9.org because they are a HUGE anti DRM site and there are a few MS employees that read it often. I dont think they work on the xbox team, but they may be able to help.

Speaking of that, DRM is one of the worst things ever for consumers and this is a prime example why. Good luck.....you absolutely need it!

Speaker Ender

October 12th, 2007, 06:35 PM

Omega, I actually just picked up Zelda for DS, so I have something decent to play over the next month while I wait for Xbox 360 #4.

When Xbox 360 #2 died, I spent the month finishing Jade Empire X-Men Legends 2, since I'd only gotten both of those a couple weeks before the 360 came out and I'd never gotten around to finishing them. I guess that's sort of a silver lining...

Shadow Kisuragi

October 12th, 2007, 07:29 PM

I've spent my good share of time on the phone with them. I've never received a callback, my record of replacing my Xbox 360 does not exist in the database whenever they look it up (no account info tied to the ref#), my information on my record is not accurate (seeing as they spelled my last name wrong - it was wrong on the refund check I got), and I'm having the same DRM issues without a refund (except mine's over $500 worth).

I was going to call them up tonight to keep hammering away on the DRM issue and saw this post, so I certainly feel for you and know what you're going through. My console also doesn't stream music, and they told me to contact Windows technical support about it when it's an issue with the console! Just keep calling until you find someone who speaks without a heavy Asian accent, as they are typically 3rd party handlers who just transfer you to someone else.

StealthyNemesis

October 12th, 2007, 07:34 PM

I haven't really had a lot of weird experiences with Microsfot over the phone. Except once I told this guy where I lived and he was babbling on and on about how he went here on vacation and it was extremely boring. Lasted a good 15 minutes, too.

Also the fact that I am on Xbox 360 #6

DR3WB1XCUB3

October 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM

the whole thing with XBL games and the such just sux. i myself have had 2 boxes now, one that was sent in for repair and the other i bought from gamestop refurbished, and i encounter the same problem with games when i switch the hard drive from one box to another. i understand to an extent that they are tying to keep people from stealing games, dl content etc, but seriously isn't there some way you could tie the liscence to just the name? any time i swap the hard drive to the other box i have to be connected to the internet to play my games which i think is a load of crap. it's like the microsoft way of keeping me bought into XBL gold. also when i sent my box in for repairs i whent through another kind of nightmare which a few people i'm sure have run into themselves. i live in an apartment and aparently microsoft looks at all apartments as p.o.boxes which as i'm sure many of you know you can't have your box shiped to a p.o.box. not that it matters it's where i live and that it is my physical adress they still can't ship it. the guy i spoke to was helpfull but hard to understand, not to hate on outsourcing but seriously if you can't understand the person your trying to get an issue resolved with then there is no point what so ever. i was told several times that i needed to give him my physical adress, then once we came to the understanding that microsoft is the devil and that they can't even ship it to my adress i then am informed to give him another adress i can send it to. so they can't send it to a random p.o.box but they can send it to an adress thats not registered to my acc??? that makes as much sense as slamming my own junk in a sliding glass door. my feelings on microsoft are a bit in the middle now. i didn't like them to much aside from the marvelous windows that they droped on us, i started to sing the praise a bit more once i got my 360, now i'm kind of in the area of grey. while they do provide good games, a somewhat reliable system, the customer service and user end functionality are fairly jacked. in closing i hurt for SE very much and hope for everything that his issue is resolved and that something of the same likeness never happens to me.

evilknight

October 12th, 2007, 09:56 PM

I feel for you on the content man, that really sucks. Im on my 8th system all returned to MS. I had 6 in the first year alone. Ive only had, for the most part, minor (and 1 major) problem(s) with MS, usually involves some idiot that hasnt even seen a 360 much less played one. I've called them so much I pretty much know how to deal with them.

1. If you have called more than once or twice for the same issue immediately ask for a supervisor, if you have talked to several supervisors in a short time period ask to talk to the next supervisor up.

2. The store replacement system WILL NOT solve your problem in the long run, it will only amplify it. As it didwith this guy. Here a tid bit of info it take 6 months or more for MS to get those machines back, there for extending the amount of time until that problem is identified and fixed. Which means that the system you just got in the store exchange will have the same problems.

3. Anytime MS does something for you IE cancels an account or something of that nature, call them back in the next few days to double check. Also call back two or more times to verify you get the same answer, like if you need to send a product back to get it replaced.

4. lastly if worse comes to worse and they are blowing you off talk to a supervisor and tell him you'll not only sue but you'll take your story to the media who is more than willing to go after MS for any reason. I dont recommend this except in extreme cases. The only Major Issue I had with MS was when they lost my replacement order and I was told to send in my system (which I had already done) and had been given the run around. I did threaten to sue and take my story to the media, by some mircle the issue was resolved in a 2 day time frame.

Wings OfForever

October 12th, 2007, 10:14 PM

This is totally absurd. You've spent over 2 days speaking to Microsoft Reps and you've ogtten nothing?

I hope they fix it soon, man. I'm really sorry to hear that. :|

Speaker Ender

October 12th, 2007, 10:26 PM

This is totally absurd. You've spent over 2 days speaking to Microsoft Reps and you've ogtten nothing?

I hope they fix it soon, man. I'm really sorry to hear that. :|

Believe me, I hope so too!

Shadow Kisuragi

October 12th, 2007, 10:49 PM

Well, after getting hung up on once, and disconnected during a transfer another time, I finally talked to someone who said that my issue with DRM license issues would be resolved within the next 48 hours. He said a supervisor would call me back and tie my DRM licenses to my arcade games (sounds like a lot of BULL, as the first guy that transferred me to a sup [who hung up on me] said I would get points back, which is the typical way they handle it). We'll see how well they handle the callback.

Btw, they say they have no record of my first Xbox 360 being registered, which is the first thing I did when I got my Xbox 360 - go figure. They can only find it by the repair order tied to my phone number.

Here's some great tips for people who have to go through this:
- Save all reference #'s. These are great for when people try to run you in circles.
- Write down the serial number for each and every console you have ever had.
- Call back several times, as people don't know how to transfer calls correctly and you often get disconnected. If you've lost hold music for over a minute, you've been disconnected. I've sat waiting for over 20 minutes, on several occassions, with no hold music and didn't have anyone pick up the line.
- Perseverence is key. Keep calling!

BLUEDEVIL008

October 12th, 2007, 11:33 PM

That's ridiculous! I don't really have any advice for you. It seems kind of impossible because you need to get to a higher Tier to get some real help and the only way you can get up there is with a valid reason with proof.

Wings OfForever

October 13th, 2007, 12:07 AM

The Steakslave

October 13th, 2007, 12:26 AM

My sympathies really go out to you, Speaker Ender. Although I haven't had anywhere near the ordeal you have, I too had a 360 die in March of this year and then another in July. Both were replaced by Best Buy; but here in Daytona, they were cool enough to let me keep the original HDD both times. I'm the only user of my console so I just have to be on Live for my DLC to work. When #2 died right after M$ annouced their new 3yr. warranty, I called 4MY XBOX to see what my options were. I got a really down to earth guy who advised me to use my replacement plan with Best Buy instead of having my current system repaired. The next day I picked up #3 but didn't buy another replacement plan hoping that I'm actually covered for 3yrs per M$. Before I hooked it up though, I wanted to call 4MY XBOX to see if they could shed any light on the rumored "system bricking" that some believed was connected to the Guitar Hero II update (which I was playing when #2 died four months into it's short life). When I was finally connected to a service rep, I found that I couldn't understand her due to her unusual accent (it was not Indian or Middle Eastern). I then asked if there was anyone else I could talk to since I simply had trouble communicating with her. She would not comply and I practically begged her to put me on with anyone who didn't have an accent. She refused and insisted that we were communicating fine. After thanking her for wasting 45 min. of my life, I simply hung up. Here's hoping that system #3 never causes me to call them again (knocks on wood).

JMH5

October 13th, 2007, 12:59 AM

Wow, Speaker Ender. you sir are a very, very patient man. how unfortunate for you, it seems like everything possibly bad, that could have happened to you, did indeed happen. your article really makes me appreciate my working 360, so i thank you for that. isn't there any legal action you can take against Microsoft? like you said, you've waisted countless hours on the phone trying to settle your situation, and it's leading you nowhere. all in all, i am truly sympathetic towards you and i hope that you get the majority of your situation settled ASAP!

ste900R

October 13th, 2007, 02:00 AM

I had a problem with xbox live customer support aswell! My xbox 360 had 3 red lights on May 18th. Game wouldn't replace it (like my first one that broke) so I had to ring up microsoft customer support. They told me they would send a package for the xbox 360 so that it could be shipped off to Microsoft and repaired in the next few days.

The package came in around 3-5 days and I wrapped the xbox up and sent it off. All went well and by April 2nd Microsoft said it was on it's way back to me (liars)! The xbox had been stoled by somebody in UPS and I wasn't going to get it back. I rang Microsoft and asked for a replacement, they said yes and they were set to give it to me (yer right)!

The days went by and by and by and by! I rang microsoft again and they said they were still prepairing it. I couldn't really do anything so I left it! A few more days went by ring microsoft again, they say the same thing! A few more days went by ring microsoft again, they say they'll ring me in less than 5 days to say that it's ready (some hope)!

I could keep repeating the last paragraph for 4 months!

Finally I threatened legal action against them, saying that they have stolen my property (what was I meant to do?) They say they'll give me a call in 2 days, and they did, (coincidence, I think not!)

I finally got my xbox 360 back in on August 15th!

Final score:

Time for them to get my xbox back: 89 days
Number of calls to microsoft: 30-60
Number of callbacks promised: 15-20
Number of callbacks recieved: 1
Microsoft call centre rating of 1-10 (10 best): 0
Microsoft rating of 1-10 (10 best): 0
Xbox 360 rating of 1-10 (10 best): 10*

*Well what can I say, it's amazing!

AzraelPC2

October 13th, 2007, 02:19 AM

Speaker, I must say that you are a very patient person. I agree with someone that posted here that this truly makes me appreciate the fact that I can still play games and use content on my 360. The only real problem that I am having with my machine is the fact that it has a huge identity crisis sometimes. It believes that it is only a DVD player, not an Xbox 360. I'm sure that it's the DVD drive dying, so I'm praying that I can make it to when Falcon launches. Sorry to get off-topic.

Back on-topic now. I have only called MS support once and spoke to a decent guy that advised me about possibilities of repair/replace options. We basically came to the agreement that I could get away with replacing the DVD drive myself as my warranty had expired and the 3-year extension doesn't cover non-RRoD issues. I never buy DLC (I'm cheap), so I'm not sure what to tell you to do, but I want you to know that I'm hoping that your problems are solved swiftly (or solved, period). I would definitely take the person's advice about threatening legal action as that seems to have the best effect on getting progress made in ongoing issues.

Here's hoping that you get to frag in Halo 3 soon!

Acronymbus

October 13th, 2007, 08:50 AM

Hi Speaker Ender,

You have the patience of a Saint.

I am in Australia and our number changed from 18004MYXBOX to 1800555741 but I guess all these calls are going to India and the number doesn't really matter.

A friend of mine recently purchased a 360 and brought it to my place to get online. He downloaded some games to his HDD and no joke the console failed (3red LED) 16 hours after purchase.

He returned the console to Electronics Boutique and apparently, even though they were reluctant to / shouldn't have, they allowed him to keep the HDD and gave him a new console after removing it's HDD.

He had the same problem as you are having regarding games being able to be played when he was online at my place, but they would revert to the demo version when he took his 360 home.

I rang 1800555741 for my mate, as I have experience dealing with MS XBOX360 Customer Help Line and he does not.

I explained the problem and was told that I had to read out the SERIAL NUMBER of the new console that the HDD is attached to and they would manually change the "Link between each game to the 1st console" to a "Link between each game and the current console'.

They said it would take up to 10 days for this to be updated in their system. It has been 12 days now, my mate is bringing his console round in about an hour so I'll post again if it has worked (or if it HASN'T).

They told me that the games should get an update when he brings it online (after the 10 day period) which will sort out the issue.

My fingers are crossed that it will work. I really feel for ya mate, this is not a tease but I had the best, funniest time in a game in a long time, doing 4 player HALO3 co-op campaign in Legendary with 3 good mates.

Update in approximately 1 hour...

Acronymbus

October 13th, 2007, 11:21 AM

Hi again. Sorry about double post here...

It hasn't worked. I'll get onto MS Helpline in the morning. If I'm not too hungover...

I'm part-time and my mate just started a week's holiday so it's a big night of gaming ahead... Hope to post here with some help for you in the next day or so... don't hold your breath for a result though.

By the way, there was no update... We deleted and downloaded the games again but as soon as he goes offline, the games become unplayable again. Sorry mate.

Speaker Ender

October 13th, 2007, 11:26 AM

IXI Dragunz IXI

October 13th, 2007, 11:45 AM

Wow, I really feel bad for you Speaker, and thats dumb on why they don't refund points anymore.

B14ck N1nj4

October 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM

Wow dude, I can't believe you actually put up with this for over a day! After the second hour I would be getting ****ed. Well it's sort of cool how this is getting published on some major gaming websites, maybe something lucky will happen. ;)

Agnostic

October 13th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Wow, I just noticed that this got posted on Kotaku.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/customer-service%3F/the-ms-customer-service-horror-show-310539.php

For some reason, I think that NYTrigga101 must have worked some magic to make that happen...

I just saw the article on Kotaku and was going to come and inform you that your grievance is making some waves. Let's hope this finds it's way to a MS community employee such as Major Nelson or Chris Paladino who can do something about it.

I am on my 5th 360 and have roughly about $200 of marketplace content. My content still works but just for my profile and if I am signed in on Live. No refund of points for me.

I have engaged in the black market for Microsoft products to get my money back. I do not have the patience or civility that you have.

Reverend Slim

October 13th, 2007, 12:03 PM

I'm on 360 numbers 8 and 9. I have two, because starting in October '06 Microsoft sent me two broken refurbs in a row and I bought a Core system to use in the meantime (which ironically died 5 weeks later and was exchanged at Circuit City). I have spent over 55 hours on the phone with Microsoft on broken consoles since the 360 launch. Of the 3 times I was told that my case was being escalated and that I would be contacted within 48 hours, I only received one call... and that was only after I wrote an angry e-mail to Major Nelson asking for help. The Core system (which doesn't have the updated heatsink) now sits in my closet as a backup because I know my Premium (which also doesn't have the updated heatsink) is eventually going to red ring.

When I raised hell about the 3 months I went without my Premium (October 15th through January 14th), they offered me a free year of Live... and then charged my credit card for a year anyway. I called to ask where my free year went and they told me they would refund my credit card. They refunded my card... and cancelled my Live subscription. I then had to pay for a year again to get it turned back on, at which point they issued another refund to actually provide me the free year they had promised. 3+ hours on the phone over this.

A little over a month ago, my wireless headset died. I called and was told that they would be sending me a replacement and that I didn't have to send the broken one in. I called the following week to see if there was a tracking number and was told that no headset would be sent until they received my broken one, which I had thrown away because the first guy told me they didn't need it. I complained until I got a supervisor, who told me a replacement was being sent. A week later, I call for a tracking number... and am again told that no replacement was being sent. After 45 minutes of raising hell about being lied to twice, I was told that my case was being elevated to the higher level and that I would be contacted within 48 hours. Again, no contact... so again I sent an e-mail to Major Nelson explaining the entire ordeal. Only at that point did I get an e-mail from Microsoft saying they would contact me within 48 hours. 48 hours passed - no contact... so I called the number in the signature of the e-mail and got the escalation people. I was told that a new headset was being sent to me and I verified my address. To date, I haven't received it... and in fact ended up buying a new one so I could play Halo 3 with friends. So I was not only out another 3+ hours of time on the phone, I dropped another $65 out of frustration.

I love the 360. It is the only gaming console to ever pull me away from PC gaming, and I love the ease of use of Live. Now that I have a friends list of people I really like playing with, I'm not going to switch from the 360 to something else... but dammit, Microsoft needs to get their act together. They have the best gaming system this generation, in my opinion, but if they can't rein in their horrible customer service it's going to come back to haunt them.

NYTrigga101

October 13th, 2007, 12:08 PM

SillyHalfMexican

October 13th, 2007, 01:15 PM

That's a crazy story, sorry to hear all that's happened to such a loyal fan of the 360.

I've had about one bad experience with Microsoft.
I called them about 4 months ago, and I told them that I wanted to cancel my account. So they asked me why and all the usual stuff. I just told them that I was no longer interested in it (I had my personal reasons). So they said alright, and they told me that I had a few months left on it (about 3 months left). I said that's ok, I'll use it until then.
So I go to get on Live and it says that my account has been downgraded to a Silver account. I check my e-mail and it says that my account had been downgraded due to a request that it be canceled.
I got a little angry at it, but it could have been a simple misunderstanding. So I call them to ask them to re-activate it until the time is out. The rep said that the notes state that I wanted it canceled immediately. I go no, I wanted it canceled, but I wanted the remainder of my time left. The rep told me that there isn't anything that I can do, it's been canceled already. I request to speak to his supervisor. I wait about 25 minutes and I hear a click, I had been hung up on as well. I call back and tell him that I had been hung up on (I could barely HEAR and UNDERSTAND this person on the phone as well) and that I wanted to talk to a supervisor. I finally get on the line with a supervisor and he basically tells me the same thing, that there isn't anything they can do about it. I request a refund then, for the remainder of the time that was left. He says that they can not do that. I start getting angry and say, "So I have to pay the consequences because of YOUR incompetance?!" And he says I am sorry, but there is nothing I can do about it. If you want to, I can raise this up to a higher tier and they will investigate it. I said fine, and he said alright (gave me a reference number or something) and told me that I would be contacted 5-10 days from now. I ask him what about the time that I'm waiting, isn't there a code or something you can give me so I can get back online? He says no I can not give them out. I got angry over that too and said, "Oh so now I have to give you guys even more money due to your incompetence!? Not only do I lose money, but I have to put out even more money? This is getting damned rediculous." He said sorry, and I just told him whatever. It's only like 8 dollars, but it's the principle of the thing. I didn't feel like dealing with it, so I said bye.
I charged my credit card for 1 month of XBL. 1 month went by... then 2. Just before the 3rd month I had forgotten all about what had happened. I finally get a call from XBox, and I'm asking my self, why are they calling? I pick up and they say they have 2 codes to redeem 3 months each, for XBL.
So all in all I got a few free months out of it I guess.
Thank GOD both of my 360's hasn't even so much as hiccuped since I've gotten them.
All I hear is horror story after horror story.
I really hope that when my time comes, that Microsoft has their stuff situated and starts acting professional to their loyal customers.
I feel sorry for the guys getting stiffed when they need to call support.
Hang in there guys!

Speaker Ender

October 13th, 2007, 01:31 PM

Wow, I really feel bad for you Speaker, and thats dumb on why they don't refund points anymore.

I don't care about the points being refunded. If they were to be able to transfer ownership to my new console, that would be enough. I just want my property to WORK again.

Pedle Zelnip

October 13th, 2007, 06:36 PM

Okay, just to play devil's advocate a little bit, and also because I'm wearing some flame-retardant clothing that I want to put to the test:

When you purchase content on XBLA the legal "fine print" clearly indicates that you are purchasing that content for the console you are using. When you buy a game on XBLA, you aren't buying it the same way you would a retail game, you're essentially buying a limited license to use that content in one particular medium.

So while yes, it completely sucks, MS is fully within their rights to say that if your console dies you are SOL when it comes to arcade content.

Please don't get me wrong, I *COMPLETELY* sympathize with your situation as I've gone through it a couple times now myself. All I'm saying is that MS is playing by the rules that you as a customer agreed to when you purchased the content off of XBLA.

But as yourself and others have said, this is a classic example of the problems associated with DRM.

I'm not sure about this, so if anyone could confirm/reject this I'd like to hear it, but I've heard that the PS3's DLC can actually be transferred to another user (ie - at any given time the content belongs to exactly one user, but that user can transfer the content to someone else at any time). Is this correct? And if so, why can't MS adopt this policy for DLC grabbed from XBLA?

A Curbst0mp

October 13th, 2007, 07:23 PM

They stopped refunding points because people were abusing the system

SpartanMkII

October 13th, 2007, 07:23 PM

my 360 has broken 6 times, its rediculous, it ****es me off that ms get away with this, and i think its completely out of order that they hung up on you, I'd say file a law suit but ms can spend more money on it so its a loosing battle, unfortunately theres very little you can do, except get people to sympthasize with you, but then again microsoft isnt resolving the ring of death issue and everyone is aware of that

PortcityplayaOG

October 13th, 2007, 07:41 PM

If you want to get a quick response, open a BBB complaint. That is what I did when it was going on 3 months for them to replace a defective harddrive I had sent in. Basically they sent my replacement to another person and gave me a new ref. # and then was trying to investigate why they couldn't verify they had received a HD with the new ref.# I explained that they wouldn't have anything with that new number because it's not the number that was on the package. The original number was on the package which for some reason now had someone else's info associated with it. No one seemed to understand what was going on until I filed a claim with the BBB and the person that deals with BBB complaints called. I talked him throug it and had a new Harddrive in 2 weeks. As for the terms of use saying that XBL content is tied to the original console, then MS should repair and RETURN THE ORIGINAL CONSOLE. Because of a problem in how they do thing, the customer has to suffer. It is not the customers fault that MS doesn't send back the original unit to them so the customer should not have to deal with a DRM issue that is not their fault. This is why I have not and WILL NOT buy any XBL content and I advise others to do the same. As attractive as the content is, I will not invest in it until MS finds a solution to a problem they created. Otherwise I will just have to deal with free content.

Shadow Kisuragi

October 13th, 2007, 09:04 PM

For the information on PS3 DLC...

From what I understand (at least with Warhawk), you can transfer the game to anyone. However, there is only one valid license at a time, meaning that if you transfer it to someone else's console and they are playing it, you cannot play it, much like the old battle.net system from Blizzard (duplicate CD keys).

I doubt that re-associating the DRM licenses will work properly, but I'll see (if they ever call me back).

cryptospartan

October 13th, 2007, 10:07 PM

hey bro i can help you i have a friend who is in the excutives office for 360 he will take care of u big time, just send me a pm and ill hook u up

Speaker Ender

October 13th, 2007, 10:59 PM

Apparently this story was also picked up by News4Gamers: http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/NewsCom-74228.aspx

I was hoping that as this story got legs, I'd be able to get in touch with someone at Microsoft that could help me, but it is the weekend, so maybe I will have more luck on Monday.

I would LOVE to write an update with a happy ending! :)

M1RAG3

October 13th, 2007, 11:19 PM

I feel your pain Speaker Ender. I am currently on my 4th broken 360. Has been broken since the day after Halo 3's launch. Still sitting here. No resolution in sight. And my true, one and only gaming love, The Orange Box, just came out and I cannot enjoy the absolutely amazing experience Valve has so expertly crafted for everyone's enjoyment.

I don't know if I am more sad or angry.

Don't want to go all legal with it. But it is headed that way, and gaining speed.

I just want to <3 meh 360 again.

You hear me Microsoft? :(

...uh, hello? Microsoft? :confused:

arsa13

October 14th, 2007, 01:23 AM

I read this story and have 2 easy solutions to both problems. First the reason you're in this conundrum in the first place is because of the 360 overheating. This IS permanently fixable using two x-clamp-fix kits and new thermal paste. http://www.x-clamp-fix.com/catalog/index.php?cat=c1_X-Clamp-Fix.html
I recently replaced the x-clamps on my 360 and put new thermal paste on the heatsinks and I've had it on for 48 hours straight, playing as many games and movies as possible with NO problems.

The second solution to your problem is to either keep your original hard drive or copy it using xplorer360 and the xcm 360 sata to usb connector... http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/xb360/satausb.htm

I have had zero problems using any of the mentioned products and have probably saved myself a lot of time, money and headaches in the process. The number of horror stories for the 360 does seem really high, but if you take things into your own hands and spend about $60 you won't have any problems ever again. I've been more frustrated with my Wii than my 360..... But that's completely irrelevant, and my own fault.

I hope my links don't get deleted and I hope this helps!

ROGU3

October 14th, 2007, 01:35 AM

Wow I just read that and that sucks. My experience has overall been ok with only a few minor complaints.

I am on Xbox #2. Xbox #1 went out the same day the Elite launched (End of Sept.) so I went to my local Wal-Mart at 1 a.m. to buy an Elite. The next day I called 1-800-4MY-XBOX and got my prepaid box and sent Xbox #1 off no prob.

I recieved Xbox #2 about three weeks later. Two days after I get Xbox #2 (refurb) in the mail my Elite goes crazy. I put a disk in and the drive breaks and starts grinding; I opened the drive as soon as this happens to find Rainbow Six Vegas has some nice deep scratches all the way around the disk. I figured since the disk was already messed up test the drive to make sure it hadent jumped off the spindle or anything. Once again grinding!

I call MS for the second time at this point. This call didn't go as well. I first asked if I could get a NEW replacement instead of a refurb since I'm within 30 days of purchase and the Elite was limited edition (at the time) and couldn't find a replacement. I was transfered to Tier 2 and told flat out "NO!" I state my complaint about having a limited edition console that was less than 30 days old that went bad and couldn't get a new one at Wal-Mart because they didn't have any more. I was offered a refurb and eventually sent to place of purchase for refund. I asked about replacement of my game. Apparently MS only covers games that aren't Rainbow Six Vegas on issues like this and they accused me of moving the console while it was powered on with the disk in saying "You broke the disk drive when you moved it." This was the wrong thing to say to me at this point. I exchanged words with this guy and politely told him where I thought he should SHOVE this Elite.

I took the Elite Back to Wal-Mart for a full refund and went back home to my Refurbished Xbox #2 on which I am still playing.

Also my friend got banned from Live on a nonmodded xbox and customer support did NOTHING for him. Basically when they decide they don't want to help you they don't.

Good Luck in you "Adventure"

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 01:47 AM

shafnitz

October 14th, 2007, 05:09 AM

I'm having a similar experience. It's ridiculous.
Part 1: http://shafnitz.blogspot.com/2007/09/my-experience-with-microsofts-xbox.html
Part 2: http://shafnitz.blogspot.com/2007/10/update-my-xbox-360-repair.html

Dark Moogle

October 14th, 2007, 09:47 AM

Wow, have to say dude that while I have read some bad 360 customer support stories on the web, yours is defenitly one of the worst cases i've seen yet. I have issues just trying to get through tech support with my internet company but when i've never had these guys hang up on me. Either way you have my support and I hope all goes well EVENTUALLY.

Have to say though, you must really love your 360. If this kind of thing had happened to me for any of my systems (even my much loved DS Lite which I have spent a bit of money on for games) I would have given up and gone nuts at the person on the other end of the phone line. Although I'm not an angry person on a phone, so this would be a really bad case. Good luck again in getting this resolved!

CarpeD1em500

October 14th, 2007, 09:58 AM

This is one of the best articles I've read in a LONG time. It almost makes my own personal situation look not so bad...

(My Story:

Over 2 months ago my Elite system dies on me. Since my Original Premium system is in a different state with my girlfriend, I am forced to "wait" out the repair with no xbox. I get a box about 8 business days later, ship it out, and... wait.

3-4 weeks later I get back a beaten up Elite that clearly has seen better days. It's a refurb unit. I plug it in, play it for 15 minutes, and it completely dies on me. Yup, you read that right, they shipped me a broken console.

I call M$ back and they explain that all they can do is start a brand new repair order. I explain I can over-night the console to them and get it back in 3 days since the guy agrees that I should get a brand new console, and thus, have no reason to "wait for repairs." However, the agent doesn't understand the concept of over-night shipping, instead saying that the repair order will take 4-5 weeks in total.

As of today? Still waiting on my xbox...It's been about 8-9 weeks now without a working Elite. So much for being a loyal customer... ?_?.

FTR: Over 25 retail games, 3 controllers, 3 XBL accounts, all the accessories you can imagine, Lots of arcade games, the HD-DVD player...yada...yada....yada.)

Here's the reality. Microsoft support SUCKS.

Yes, you read that correct. They effing SUCK. I own a PS3, and I don't care if I get flamed for saying this, but if they had 1/10th the decent games that Xbox 360 had, I would've dropped this stupid console in a lake by now and stuck to my PlayStation. Unfortunately I'm "stuck" with the best games, the best online service, and the WORST support service. GAHHH!!!!

chappers

October 14th, 2007, 11:18 AM

Bla, read about 2 and half pages of this and got fed up. Really annoys me how lazy they are. We are the ones blowing like £300 on something which breaks like 3 months later. I've had 3 360's, one of which broke within 3 months of getting it, and the other about a year. For something which costs like £300, i think its a ruddy disgrace how easily they break. Even though i never touch my ps3, unless i'm in desperate need of a quicky, at least i know it won't break on me, since i've heard they're quite reliable (despite the dog hair, dust, and whatever else it is covered in). I hope you can get on halo 3 soon moit, at least this has happened before what seems like a good couple months of video games. I've got to phone up 0800-INDIA in the next couple of days, getting my own room so i want my currently dusted 3 red light 360 up and running pretty soon.

patchgonebad

October 14th, 2007, 11:55 AM

As a manager of call centers for years, I can assure you that any agent at any call center that hangs up on you can be sued, as a matter of fact many people out there make a living off of this...and there are plenty of lawyers that handle this kind of stuff. If I see or hear of any agent hanging up on a customer, I grab them for a quick sidebar meeting to explain there future with the company.

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 12:18 PM

BrooklynKnight

October 14th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Speaker,

Wow, all I can say is that its all bull****. I wish you had recorded all the conversations from your end so that you could play them in court and sue them.

Qindar

October 14th, 2007, 12:51 PM

Wow, my empathy man, srsly, the advice i can offer (if any :S) is if there is a Microsoft building or anything of that nature in your area, walk in and like calmly and politely (at first) ask to speak with higher authority, the only problem that I see is that Microsoft will want to see evidence of all this, you have no service names (except for Kathlyeen or whatever) and they will turn you down, I had a similar problem with apple and like it helps if the customer service reps speak english i find :P umm ya physically walk in, $300 is a lot to lose, especially if they dont even give u the money back, keep credit card bills and EVERYTHING ive learned.

gimme an email is you sort this out, and if you ever need any help in this matter ill be here

tekken_master7@hotmail

Best of luck,
Thomas

JKR Firefox

October 14th, 2007, 01:22 PM

It's about time someone had a similar experience as me. I've been wanting to post this for a while because I feel as if I have been ripped off so badly. I purchased an XBox 360 a while back and while I did enjoy my time with it, it passed away about a month ago. Long story short, I went out and bought an Elite model, and moved my gamertag onto the system. I then proceeded to redownload all of my content, while not as much as yours (8000 points or so) and then I went to bed. The next day, I awoke and attempted to play some of the songs I downloaded for GHII. They were gone. I called XBox support and they said delete the account, recreate it and everything should be fine. 26 calls later, a very frustrated person (me) called into XBox support AGAIN. Finally, I got a person who told it to me straight: "Your content is tied to the console you downloaded it onto, so there is no way to keep it on the acct unless you are signed into Live". So I wanted to get my points back. They said no. I asked for a supervisor. I spoke with one who told me that I needed to repurchase all of the points again and redownload all of the content. I was shocked. I could not believe this was happening. I pleaded my case over and over but to no avail. This guy would not budge. This is the most unfair thing that has ever happened to me in my life in regards to customer service. Countless calls, rude agents, and supervisors who just don't give a crap. I'm done with calling them because it's nothing but a dead end. I was surprised when I saw that they gave you back your points because they told me to simply go out and buy new points cards. I hate Microsoft now and I don't know what to do to at least get my money back.

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 01:47 PM

It looks like the story was posted here as well:
http://www.qj.net/Xbox-360-owner-experiences-customer-service-nightmare/pg/49/aid/105003
http://xbox.best-blog.co.uk/2007/10/13/the-microsoft-customer-service-horror-show/
http://news.go4match.de/the-microsoft-customer-service-horror-show/
http://www.ipba2004seoul.com/customer-service-the-ms-customer-service-horror-show_75096.html
http://www.fastlikesquirrel.com/?p=10055

dietx

October 14th, 2007, 02:11 PM

Well, Ill tell you one thing, it seems on every other site theres is nothing but disrespect towards the topics this story has created. I just read the N4G Version, and I believe I saw more unrelated flaming, then I did anything else. This is truly a sad day when you put up something, looking for help, and get nothing back by angry evangelists from sony(ps3) trying to make you feel like your system is a pos.

All in all, my tidbit is keep trying, thats alot of money you put forth and I wouldn't let it go to waste at all. Microsoft has buttons, you just have to dig through all their crap to finally push it and they'll comply. :/

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 02:29 PM

dietx, I agree. I cannot believe the fanboy hostility of that site--especially that Secret Squirrel guy, or whatever.

DainzeJD

October 14th, 2007, 03:16 PM

Hey Speaker Ender, I to have felt Microsoft and there....sub par Customer support.

Now like you I have ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS! Supported Microsoft, whether it be Window's, Zune, or the Xbox brand. I was waiting in line for the original Xbox I was waiting in line for the 360.

Now some may call me lucky but my Xbox 360 suffered a terrible, terrible fate 2 weeks ago keeping in mind that this was a launch 360 I was surprised it lasted so long.(Thats not a good sign!) So with a heavy heart I called Xbox support. You see my Xbox's DVD drive bit the dust (The console still runs it simply refuses to play disks!) I get a "Unplayable disk" error down where the Disk tray is on the dashboard, disappointing seeing as how I have not been able to play through halo 3! Now because of outsourcing I had a difficult time understanding my servise rep and she had a difficult time understanding me...to put things in perspective I had to Spell my postal code and address more then once!

Now after the registration was over it was time to diagnose the problem, I explained to her that my console would not run game's or DVD's both getting the "Unplayable Disk" error. It went into Coffin mode and she told me that I needed my credit card to charge 100 dollars for the repair.... "What!? This is a hardwaire failure covered under the extended warranty!" At this point I was getting upset and twitchy.

"I'm sorry but the warranty only covers you if you get the 3 flashing lights" I tried explaining calmly that this was a hardware issue, a manufacturing issue (The DVD tray door used to stick) it should be covered. Again same answer... I demanded to speak to her supervisor and I got the same deal but she added something else which blew my mind.

"Sir the Xbox has not been in our possesion since the purchase therefore the problem is caused by you and you will need to pay 100 dollars to get your Xbox repaired." The problem was.... My fault? MY FAULT!? I broke my Xbox!? Yeah somehow I broke my Xbox.....its to bad I babied the thing...I DUST it for Jebus' sake! I told her if you make me pay this I will NEVER buy another Xbox again, she said she was sorry but there was nothing she could do...I hung up.

Two days later I broke and called back...handed over my hard earned money and repeated what I said that if you make me pay this I will never buy another Xbox console, he apologized but said there was nothing he could do...Microsoft's loss. Nvidia,ATI,Intel,AMD's gain.

After this Console cycle I am never buying another console..ESPECIALLY a Xbox.

Speaker Ender I know how helpless you have to feel and now I really know that Microsoft just doesn't care about the market they want so bad.

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 03:24 PM

Wow, I had no idea that the warranty ONLY covered the RRoD. Thanks for pointing that out--I will include it in my next article "The 1-800-4MY-XBOX" survival guide"!

chibul

October 14th, 2007, 06:38 PM

I just recently upgraded to the Elite. I have 47 XBLA games that now don't work with my wife's gamertag...and if it's this much of a hassle for you to get the issue fixed when your system bricked, I guess that pretty much means there's no chance of getting mine fixed.

This sucks.

Shalkar

October 14th, 2007, 10:07 PM

WOW!!! Now THAT is messed up man! I've only had to deal with customer support a couple times. Both were easy for me, but that's because I got a really nice person to deal with. They were Tier 1, but they went through the rhetoric of "Trouble Shooting" my Xbox 360 with me until they finally sent me the magical box. I got a new one the first time, and the same one back the second time. I know the problem was heat related because where the serial number is on the back, it's mostly melted the numbers off. :/

The third time it broke I "exchaged" it. This third Xbox 360 is working great SO far... I can't afford a PS3, not that it has any really great games at the moment and the Wii just doesn't have my kind of games. The Xbox 360 has the games I want, but if this one breaks and I can't "exchange" it, I'm going back to gaming on the computer. Yeah it probably costs a little more in the long run, but it'll be much less frustrating and totally worth it. How come there were never nearly as many problems with the old consoles? My Ataris still works dang it! :D

Yeah it's great that gaming has gotten better all around. Whether it's graphics, controls or something else we've gotten a long way, but why are consoles made so horrible now a days? I think it's because the main contenders, Microsoft and Sony, are greedy and don't know what they're doing. They're blind giants stumbling through the kitchen trying to gorge themselves on what ever sustinance they can find.

Consoles are to be, at best, sold for the same price it takes you to make them. Plain and simple. Then you make your money off of your percentage from each game sold. Not try and make a profit on each console sold. It's just like the blood sugar testing machines. They practically give you the machine with a coupon on most of them, and then every last company charges an arm and a leg for the testing strips. THAT is how they make their money! It's like giving somebody a car at the price it took to make it or a little less and owning all the gas stations they'll be stopping at. Sure you may lose out on the car, but look how much money you'll be getting from gas!

DRM is garbage. The fact is other than the arcade games and the expansions they sell on Xbox Live Marketplace, all of that stuff should be free! As far as games stuff goes. I couldn't care less about their movies and shows. I can pay a monthly fee for what it costs to buy a movie and watch 4 or 5 movies at least! The fact is their greedy. Exactly what they want is that if you lose that content, you just buy it again and again. Want to watch it at your friends house? Better hope they bought it! They're idiotic and, quite frankly, I just outright refuse to buy Microsoft Points. I got 200 when I bought the special package that included the Xbox Live Camera, but I consider that part free with the year of live and the camera.

Once sombody has total market dominance, or at least think they do, they begin to downgrade their service to be "more cost effective" and do one over on their customers. All you can do is not buy their stuff unless you have to. If you have to, buy it used. I have a total of 2 games that I ever bought brand new for the Xbox 360. I have about 25 games. I stopped buying after I entered an online service to just rent. I save money, play the games I want to my addiction's intent and Moneysoft sees just a few games purchased for a LOT of people to play. ;)

Wings OfForever

October 14th, 2007, 11:24 PM

Wow, N4G is a weird site--I have never seen so many angry fanboys. I registered over there, just to clear a few things up, and now people are jumping all over me accusing me of being an imposter.

Seriously, who would WANT to pretend to be me? Oh, well. If you're from N4G and you are reading this. Now you know that I am me.

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/NewsCom-74228.aspx

LOL. I read all the comments posted by you, and to you. And, I must say, those kids are a bit ill in the head.

I don't understand fanboys. And, I probably never will. We all know, no console is superior to the others. (EXCEPT, SNES. :D) But, whatever, let them think what they want.

Is there an update to your story? Have they called you back? Or, have you called them back?

I'm really interested to know.

Speaker Ender

October 14th, 2007, 11:38 PM

Wings OfForever

October 15th, 2007, 12:10 AM

Wings Of Forever, there is no update yet, but I didn't expect there to be, yet. If they are important enough to Microsoft to be able to help me, then they are probably important enough to take the weekends off. :)

Ah, that's true. I forgot it was the weekend. o_o

Well, like I said, hope all goes well. Make sure to update us when you can. :]

DiggerNick

October 15th, 2007, 12:26 AM

The issue with content not working after repair is no longer being solved by refunding the points, they just fiddle with the license issues.

Just sayin'.

arsa13

October 15th, 2007, 01:46 AM

Thanks for the tips! Unfortunately, Xbox 360 #3 has already been shipped back to MS. But if Xbox 360 #4 bites the dust, I will DEFINITELY look into a more DIY solution.

You're most welcome. I know how frustrating all this is, honestly... I myself purposely waited until early this year to get a 360, and have had no problems until Halo3 came out, because I just 'had to have' a halo3 console. I also wanted hdmi. Long story short I sold my old premium to a friend in Texas and as soon as he received it it was dead from the 3 red lights. He shipped it back to me, I ordered the x-clamp-fix kit and some thermal paste remover and Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste. Looked up how to open the 360 up, took my time, and in about 2-3 hours had it back up and running like NEW. I'm sending back to him tomorrow.

I also copied my original hard drive to my computer with said XCM 360 sata 2 usb kit using xplorer360 software and then copied the image back to my new halo3 console hard drive and have had ZERO problems again with any of my content or live account.

I strongly suggest if your next 360 dies that you just fix it yourself, or get someone who knows what they're doing to do it for you. I really wish you had kept your original hard drive as that would have solved a whole bunch of your problems as your hard drive is NOT tied to your console, unlike the original xbox which was. For example you could even buy a larger hard drive and swap it out for your little 20gb.

Glad I could help. It makes me feel like I've accomplished something.

israelisrealxbox

October 15th, 2007, 04:13 AM

Man, this guy is absolutely right. My xbox 360 died about a month ago I phoned 1-800-4MY-XBOX like 4 or five times and once I got hung up on and the second time I heard laughing coming from the line....really MS what kinda jokers do you have running you customer service call center? you know I am not a 15 year old!!! I am a 25 year old full time employed male with a health amount of disposable income so I got to wonder if you were a bank or something if you would go out of business with this level of service really.

I choose your console for the old school and the new games. But yeah this situation has got to change...having some outsources Filipinos in charge of handling customer care is just a bad move. Why not just send the call center to Mexico, I am sure they know my gaming issues....not.

DMDM2

October 15th, 2007, 05:22 AM

You can stil have other accounts use your xbla downloads, without them reverting to the demo mode.

If you login your main account to live with a 'spare controler' then use the other account with another controler to launch the game the other account will be able to play the full version of the game, it's a little clunky but it does work.

SpartanMkII

October 15th, 2007, 11:13 AM

I dont know if it exists in the US but in the uk, although it may say year warranty you have to have 3 in the Somthing consumer act, its not advertised but your supposed to have 3 years warranty this might be too late but you might find it useful

Skorpion

October 15th, 2007, 12:56 PM

I went through a similar story, though not as in depth. I have given up on every getting my $60+ back, but have recently made a decision. I will buy no more XBL Marketplace content until Microsoft resolves this issue. I'm tired of being treated like I am trying to rip off Microsoft simply by trying to use my content on another console, a replaced console, that was replaced due to a MANUFACTURING defect that MICROSOFT admits to.

How do we get in touch with a Class Action Lawsuit Lawyer? How do we get that process started.

xxfairenoughxx

October 15th, 2007, 05:25 PM

I say that the community organizes and we all call the 800 number at a specific time effectively crashing the call center. Speaker Ender could make a mp3 recording of himself and we'll all call up, at the same time, and play it until one of us gets through. I'm in. Anybody else?

Wings OfForever

October 15th, 2007, 05:59 PM

Speaker Ender

October 15th, 2007, 08:05 PM

Wow, I have gotten Xbox Live messages from all people all over the place telling me that they read my story. So far, I've been told that the story has appeared on:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/customer-service%3F/the-ms-customer-service-horror-show-310539.php
http://www.n4g.com/News-74228.aspx
http://ninjabattle.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24852&Itemid=26
http://www.blogowogo.com/blog_article.php?aid=1032600&t=8
http://www.digg.com/xbox_360/The_Microsoft_Customer_Service_Horror_Show
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/post_msg.php?topic_id=25978290
http://www.qj.net/Xbox-360-owner-exp.../49/aid/105003
http://xbox.best-blog.co.uk/2007/10/...e-horror-show/
http://news.go4match.de/the-microsof...e-horror-show/
http://www.ipba2004seoul.com/custome...how_75096.html
http://www.fastlikesquirrel.com/?p=10055
http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=5151218
http://play.tm/wire/cluster/1563770
http://gamefeeds.info/2007/10/14/the-microsoft-customer-service-horror-show/
http://www.gametalk.com/talk/ngvs/86953931.htm
http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74757
http://www.unrealaddicts.com/forums/xbox360-news/17937-microsoft-customer-service-horror-show.html
http://www.phidz.com/entries/view/Customer-Service-The-MS-Customer-Service-Horror-Show*d7w0vqEACr3kaoeJeZaaqU
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=927750&topic=38872031

I am fairly certain now, that SOMEONE at MS has to have read this. I sent off a few emails today, and I'll let you know if anyone responds.

Wings OfForever

October 15th, 2007, 08:12 PM

I hope you get something back. All the bad publicity this is giving MS. You'd think they'd give a crap, eh?

Shadow Kisuragi

October 15th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Hey, I didn't get a callback within 48 hours as promised! What a surprise! I'm going to start writing down names with reference numbers so that people can start being held accountable for their actions over the phone. It seems like the only time that Microsoft actually takes action is when they get threatened.

Good luck on your end, Speaker Ender. Now that your well-written article has spread like wildfire, we can be sure that MS will take some action on their part to retain face. Here's hoping they actually apologize for their actions... that'd be a first!

As for me, I could care less if I got points for my content, as long as they made transferring the DRM licenses part of the maintenance instead of just acting like there is no problem. This would solve many of their current PR issues.

rN Bloodgame

October 15th, 2007, 08:55 PM

All I can say after reading that is.

1) I feel for you, my experiences with Microsoft and Sony went the same way, I was a little more fortunate.

2) God Hates You.

okron1k

October 15th, 2007, 09:01 PM

man that is terrible! i'm glad i haven't had to go through that so far.

you know what i would try to do in a situation like that? file a small claims suit like you've already threatened. take them to court.

if you can obtain an address of someone important.. write them a nicely worded professional letter. just use what you wrote here (excellent read btw)

say this is what i've paid.. this is what i've had to go through. my issue is still not resolved. i want a new 360, a code for the amount of ms points i have spent in total on any of the xbox's... and a 2 year subscription to live gold to make up for the months i've been missing due to my xbox being gone and the hassle i had to go through. and an upgrade to an elite for the troubles as well as an hd dvd player and 10 hd dvd's :D

something like that. for the most part you should just ask for all your money back you have paid towards ms points or the amount in total of all ms points you have spent. that solves all arcade problems. an upgrade to an elite and 2 year gold subscription for the hassle and downtime of the xbox.

100 free 360 games would be pretty sick tho.

microsoft... take care of your loyal customers.

al capOWNage

October 15th, 2007, 09:13 PM

Dude! Awesome that you got your article published!

I see it's being talked about all over the place...I hope things turn out for the best!

Speaker Ender

October 15th, 2007, 09:47 PM

I wasn't sure who at Microsoft would be best to contact to about this, so I shot an email off to Major Nelson.

Hopefully, he can either help me or point me in the right direction.

mihalik

October 15th, 2007, 10:45 PM

I wasn't sure who at Microsoft would be best to contact to about this, so I shot an email off to Major Nelson.

Hopefully, he can either help me or point me in the right direction.

I doubt he will help. I have emailed him multiple times about my similar issue and have heard nothing back. He is aware of the issue but won't talk about it or help anyone. But maybe because you are getting some media coverage...

I registered on this forum because I am experiencing pretty much the same thing. And I have learned a few things over the 2 months I have been dealing with Microsoft. There are a number of people on the Xbox.com forums with this problem, too. There are 90 some pages (http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16144028) of posts dating back almost 2 years. One interesting thing about that topic is that it originally lived in technical issues but it was moved to "Wishlist" by the mods. That pretty much sums up Microsoft's opinion of this issue.

Here is the information I have picked up from my calls with Microsoft and from reading the Xbox.com forums. Some of this has been mentioned here before, I think. Hopefully this will help someone going through this problem.

They no longer give you points back on a sliver account. They update the license for the new serial number
If you send a console in for repair to Microsoft then they will often update the licenses before they ship the replacement (this does not seem 100%, though)
If you replace in the store you have to provide proof of replacement to get the license transfer
They will not perform license transfers if you upgrade while doing a replacement (Best Buy will replace or give you your money back. If you upgrade to an Elite while replacing you are SOL)
One you provide them with proof of replacement with the same level console you then go "under investigation". This seems to take 1-2 weeks.
Once you pass investigation then you get put in the queue for having your license updated. This takes 30+ days.
The group that does the license update does not talk to the customer support people and they don't talk to customers. Once you are in the 30 day period there is nothing the support people can do. Even if you go past the 30 days.

I thought your stats were pretty good. I posted these stats on my website a few days ago:

8 weeks
20 phone calls
4 promises of callbacks that never happened
2 faxes
7 hours on the phone
They hung up on me twice
I hung up on them twice (kindly)

All for about $33 worth of stuff that my wife can’t use under her account anymore because Microsoft makes crappy hardware. I also posted the call-by-call at my website (http://dmihalik.com/pages/xbl).

-Dustin

skinza

October 16th, 2007, 07:35 AM

speaker ender i know how you feel,do u have an email address,I have some info that will help u, it's a phone number to a specialist from the repair centre.it is a direct line to him.He handled my case back in january after i was given the run around for 2 months.i too was hung up on,was put on hold for hours,was told they had no record of my 360 being recieved at the repair center.and so on.After i read your story i feel this guy can help you.I will not post his number in this thread,so that he won't get bombarded with phone calls,after i talked to him and told him my story of the 2 month ordeal i was going through,he resolved my problem within 2 days,and i had my new 360 the next week.He could not believe what i had went through.I also have a console out for repair now as well,got the red rings of death a week before halo 3 so i really do know how u feel.this time around I had 2 shipping boxes sent to me.the first order got screwed up some how. so when i called for the tracking number they told me what happened,so they started another order that day,long story short i got 2 shipping boxes with in 2 days of each other.used the second one with the right ref.# on it.they got it last thursday at the repair center, and shipped the new to me 360 out on saturday,so there is still some hope for microsoft lol.:)

Ender Sai

October 16th, 2007, 01:39 PM

Its odd that we both have ender in our screen names
I wish i had been as thorough as Speaker Ender in logging my personal trip through CS hell. feel free to email me
murdermonkey9000@yahoo.com
I’m now on my 7th or 8th 60 repair, keep in mind that I own a ps3, wii, laptop, 47in monitor, 37 inch monitor, and 5 PCs(Im a tech *****) in various parts of my apartment all working beautifully for the same amount of time as I've owned the 360. I don’t smoke and keep pretty dust free so going through this many repairs is really new to me. I had to replace the power supply right from the week I opened the 360, within months I had the three rings, the second unit arrived with something large rattling around inside and worked for about a week. The third unit was DOA. Fourth 360 worked for several months then 3 ringed out. Fifth arrived the same day I bought crackdown, when I put in crackdown I got a disc read error and was ****ed about needing to return it, then I tried Lego star wars 2 and got the same error. This repair is when I met the RSS team (is that right) In particular Elda who said it was time I was given a brand new 360(which id been begging for since console 3 and being told it wasn’t possible) she sent out the coffin and about a week later I received it, I packed it up and sent it out, about 2 weeks later I received
A refurbished 360, she said that it had taken too long to get my request approved and that I would have to ship the console I received back and start the process again, I declined because I really wanted to just play the game I spent 60 bucks on and be done. Elda told me that she would add that I had been approved to my log and that if it happened again I could just call cs and they would send it out.
So after that one died (I had just purchased overlord) I called expecting a smooth transition to a new console....
I spoke to someone at cs again and asked for them to send the coffin and send the new console, they said it would have to be passed to RSS and that someone would contact me in 2 days, midway through the day I called cs to see what was taking so long, and a lady told me that it said in my notes someone tried calling me and left a voicemail telling me to call 18004myxbox( I thought that was weird because they cant connect me to rss its a special number I have to call) but she said they would call again the next day. The next day I waited for the call and it never came so I called cs again this time I got a guy who sounded like he was in California, who told me that there was nothing in the notes for the last days except that a coffin was sent out.
He was the first person who seemed to really be bothered by the things that have gone on and the first to volunteer something for my troubles (the live vision camera) which goes a long way to fostering good will towards your customers, but the gesture is more important than the camera i’m never going to use. He set the rss call up and I received a call 2 days later a guy named Paul who said he would have to get me approved again, this time I waited before sending my 360 because I didn’t want to receive another refurbished unit. A week later he calls and says I’m approved and as soon as they receive the old one my new one will be shipped. Two weeks or more later I receive a 360, I took it out of the box to check its birthdates and see if it’s a new one.... I see some black smudges and near the case opening points I see a few gouges I know its been opened, and its dated 2006 12 7(odd date format) so its either 8 months old or 11...either way far from new. So now I’m back to dealing with rss guy Paul and waiting for a response to see if they will send it out before they receive my current box and to see if expedited shipping is possible.
I forgot to mention that my component cable was also replaced because it turned black and white. also having to deal with the drm issues every time my girlfriend or roommate wants to play something I downloaded and cant because its a different console, so I have to make a new live account and get them to replace my points so I can redownload everything to make them work across all profiles...this will be my 4th time doing this. Does this seem like the workings of one of the biggest companies in the world?
The only saving grace is a selection of good games and the 360 controller is beautiful.
I’m not a very good writer but I tried to make this readable. So I figured I'd tell you my story and if you see fit to tell it would be good. I'm also willing to provide one of your writers with all the info needed to call in as me to have this all validated by a cs rep, all you have to do is ask them to read my log back to you or id do a conference call. When totaled I’ve spent 7 months or more of a 20 month period getting my 360 repaired. The only reason i'm writing this is to prove that no warranty on earth is worth putting up with this crap and that opinion seems to be held by a lot of people.

twistedsymphony

October 16th, 2007, 02:28 PM

Support:
First of all I'd like to let you know that I've posted this on thoughthead.com
it's a relatively new site, we only get a few hundred readers a day but I know for a fact that MS people read it because I've been contacted more than once by MS employees about articles I've written there.
you can read it here: http://thoughthead.com/85

What the Warranty actually covers
There seems to be some confusion here from people over what the warranty actually covers.
in the USA: MS warranties the console against ALL defects for 1 year... so if your DVD stops working, the hard drive corrupts, or the PSU blows up, you're covered.

Beyond 1 year you are ONLY covered from the "RROD" errors where the ring of light flashes 3 red lights.

95% of the time if your 360 goes tits up it's a RROD error anyway. You can consider yourself an amazingly unlucky bastard if you happen to have some OTHER problem occur after the original 1 year.

Those of you who were mad that MS wasn't covering your console for a non RROD problem after the first year need to read better because they made it abundantly clear in every press release and in every news release about the extended warranty that it was ONLY for RROD errors and nothing else.

Do it Yourself Repairs
I manage the largest Xbox 360 error code list on the internet, don't believe me?: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=484726

^ if your console is giving you grief you can find out more detailed information about what is going wrong with it there, depending on the problem it can be fixed easily.

"X-Clamp Replacement" mods are your best bed for getting rid of the RROD errors... it uses about $3 worth of parts from the hardware store and has a documented success rate of 90+%
The guy that posted earlier about this was obviously spamming a "kit" that would have likely been way over priced when you can just pick the parts up from the store yourself. If you'd like to know more about it go here: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=595746
There you can see the active tally of successful X-clam replacement mods as well as a couple of different guides on how to do it yourself.

Other problems have other solutions. For instance if your DVD drive dies you can buy a new drive (make sure it's the same exact brand and model as your old one) and use your PC to rip the firmware off of your old drive and then burn it on to your new drive... These are the same tools people use to "hack" their 360's to play pirated games but obviously they have the benefit of allowing you to legally repair your own console. You can buy the tools to do that pre-made for $50 or there are instructions to build your own for a lot cheaper (though a lot less pretty).

The same technology used by GameSavers to cheat achievements could also be potentially leveraged to "fix" the DRM issues with content but that would require a little extra effort on the part of the developers of that software and it's quite unfortunate that they don't make it work for that.

If anyone has any questions about this stuff I suggest you hit up Xbox-Scene, We've been documenting Xbox hardware failures and potential solutions since 2001. I guarantee any problem you come across someone there has already seen and posted about it.

As for myself...
Thankfully my launch day console is still running strong. If/when it dies I'm not even going to bother with customer support. I'll likely just buy an Elite, deal with the fact that my old content is no longer available to me. Repair my old console myself and sell it, advertising that it comes pre-packaged with lots of free XBLA games and DLC.

B100D HUNGRY

October 16th, 2007, 03:05 PM

I really feel sorry for you after reading that, Speaker. I'm only on my 2nd 360 thankfully, but I've had a few problems.

My original system which I bought in March 2006 got the RROD in April 2007. 1 month after the warranty expired. I was sad and decided I'd just play my Wii for several months until I could afford the repairs (no job). Luckily I was able to just get a new 360 for Easter, but I was still stuck with a broken 360. When M$ finally decided to increase the warranty over the summer, I could get 360 #1 fixed. I set up the repair, and got the new system back in September. I was able to just sell it to a friend for the same price as the trade-in value ($150). I just really hope I don't have to deal with the kind of crap you went through.

Speaker Ender

October 16th, 2007, 05:13 PM

UPDATE:
Hi, everyone, I just wanted to give you an update. One of you, who asked not to be named, gave me an email address of someone at Microsoft, and I sent a message last night. Today, I received a phone call from Microsoft Xbox Support, and it seems like things are going to be resolved soon.

He explained, in great detail, how a series of events lead to my service ticket dropping through the cracks. Apparently, my case was the perfect storm (multiple tickets opened by accident, the wrong ones closed, incorrect notes, etc.) and happened during a brief window where it was not caught in the regular audits--and so is unique and in now way typical.

I have been given a date by which I should receive a working console (November 2nd--no later), I have been assigned a Xbox Repair and Replacement specialist who will check the status on a daily basis, I have been given a direct extension that I can call for updates or if I have any questions, and I have also discovered why my content does not work, and that the content on the new console will function properly.

Also, he explained to me the safeguards that are in place to make sure that this does not happen to others--as I said, I fell through the crack as some of these were being implemented and a few policies were being changed.

I will keep you all up do date, but after my conversation today, I am pretty confident that I will finally be taken care of.

rand0m0ne

October 16th, 2007, 06:08 PM

Wow there really needs to be a sparknotes version of this article!

Wings OfForever

October 16th, 2007, 07:40 PM

Speaker, I'm happy to hear that. :]

arsa13

October 17th, 2007, 12:36 AM

Support:
Do it Yourself Repairs
The guy that posted earlier about this was obviously spamming a "kit" that would have likely been way over priced when you can just pick the parts up from the store yourself.

Just to be clear, buddy... I was JUST trying to help out. I don't spam out products. I could care less about the company that I bought that kit from, and if I can buy them from a hardware store, then I'd be more than happy to do so. Don't assume stuff about someone that is ONLY trying to help. I bought the kit (overpriced, obviously) used it, and now the 360 works... Enough said.

Speaker, Glad to hear that this looks like it will be resolved within a couple weeks. I hope everything works out for you.

Wings OfForever

October 17th, 2007, 01:14 AM

Just to be clear, buddy... I was JUST trying to help out. I don't spam out products. I could care less about the company that I bought that kit from, and if I can buy them from a hardware store, then I'd be more than happy to do so. Don't assume stuff about someone that is ONLY trying to help. I bought the kit (overpriced, obviously) used it, and now the 360 works... Enough said.

Speaker, Glad to hear that this looks like it will be resolved within a couple weeks. I hope everything works out for you.

Why would you risk losing your warranty on a "DIY" job?

arsa13

October 17th, 2007, 01:35 AM

Why would you risk losing your warranty on a "DIY" job?

Are you seriously asking me that question in a thread about how ****ty MS's CS is? Ender is on his 4th 360 already! Why would I send my 360 into MS and then wait for a month or more, and then have to do it all over again in a few months??? The refurb units never last. The X-clamps do not hold the heatsinks down tightly enough. This is a well known issue. I'd rather "risk" doing it myself than messing around with Microsoft for months at a time when I can't use my 360. I've been building my own computers and working on electronics for over 12 years now. With a little help from the internet and youtube I found videos on how to take your 360 apart. Like I said before it took me the first time about 2 hours and my 360 has been running for almost 150 hours straight now with NO problems. I think it's safe to say I know what I'm doing.

By the way... I could care less about the warranty because I bought it for $270 back in February off of a friend, so I don't think the warranty applies to me since I don't have the store receipt. I could be wrong though, I just don't care. You people can say whatever you want, but the fact remains, I have a working 360 now that works very well, and still cost me less than retail.

Last, for every one of Speaker Ender's story there must be at least ten more that have experienced similar CS. Are you really trying to argue that Microsoft cares about each and every one of their customers? That'd be one heck of an achievement if you could prove that.

B14ck N1nj4

October 17th, 2007, 09:59 AM

Well, that's good to hear that you're getting your 360 back.

Speaker Ender

October 17th, 2007, 10:50 AM

Hey guys, lay off arsa13--he's trying to help.

I honestly don't understand what in forum-culture causes people just all over anyone who tries to provide helpful information... I blame Hlllary Clinton for it, though.

mihalik

October 17th, 2007, 12:26 PM

I will keep you all up do date, but after my conversation today, I am pretty confident that I will finally be taken care of.

I'm glad that Microsoft is finally taking care of you. However, I have read too many stories and talked to too many support people to really believe that this is an isolated incident. I know many other people have gone through similar issues. And you should not have to post on a gaming website that gets liked by hundreds of other sites to get help. Same for people that have to go to the BBB or attorney general to get the problem resolved.

Or maybe I'm just bitter...

twistedsymphony

October 17th, 2007, 12:29 PM

I apologize for labeling his post "spam" if it was not intended as such. I've seen that kit spammed before on other forums, saw that he essentially signed up just to post about it and made the assumption.

Also about the X-Clamp

Why would you do it
1. Because not everyone is covered under warranty. As I stated before the 3 year warranty only applies to RROD errors, there are numerous other problems that can occur that brick your console and do not produce a RROD that MS will flat out refuse to fix... BUT you can still fix most of those yourself with the X-Clamp.

There are other reasons that MS would deny your warranty too... not everyone has warranty coverage.

2. As stated by arsa13, not everyone wants to wait several weeks to several months to deal with MS's replacement plan. Nevermind if you've been disenfranchised by the whole situation when you're on console #3, 4, 5 etc.... The Xclamp works, you can fix your own console inside an hour, including the trip to the local hardware store for parts... Sometimes people's time is worth more than an MS warranty.

As for why the X-Clamp Works
arsa13 is incorrect in stating that the X-Clamps are not tight enough... The problem is that the circuitboard behind the chips is thin, the chips produce a lot of heat, the solder used to hold it together is brittle (since it's environmentally friendly) and the pressure from the xclamps is uneven... this basically creates a "perfect storm" for the chip to slightly separate from the circuitboard and the result is a dead Xbox.

The X-clamp replacement methods basically remove the xclamps completely and replace them with some washers and other hardware that clamps the headsinks down with even pressure so no matter how hot the chips get, how thin the circuitboard is or how brittle the solder is, the chip will remain planted in place. The cases where this method does not work are those where the solder has become so brittle that it can no longer make any connection, or where the circuitboard has become permanently warped.

MS has attempted to "fix" this issue in their design by adding another heat sink as well as adding epoxy reinforcement around the chips to help keep the circuitboard from warping.

IMO this is a poor fix because if the temps get hot enough youll still have problems because the circuitboards are still thin and the clamps are still applying uneven pressure. It's analogous to a car continually crashing into walls and dying, so rather than avoiding the walls they've reinforced the car to fair better in a collision... well it can still die if it hits hard enough, or frequently enough. If they really want to fix the issue they need to remove the walls (use higher quality, thicker circuit boards) or simply avoid hitting them (remove the X-Clamps for something that applies even pressure)

-----------------

As for this being a unique case
I don't buy it... there are dozens of others that replied to this thread with similar unresolved support issues... Obviously MS wants to Appease you (Speaker Ender) because your story has caught so much media attention... I think we all remember who very very long MS flat out denied that anyone was having major problems with these consoles.

...What about finding out how they're handling some of the problems that other A360P members are having? Obviously you've got some clout so why not do a little investigative journalism so see how realistic their story about you "falling through the cracks" really was.

Wings OfForever

October 17th, 2007, 02:45 PM

Are you seriously asking me that question in a thread about how ****ty MS's CS is? Ender is on his 4th 360 already! Why would I send my 360 into MS and then wait for a month or more, and then have to do it all over again in a few months??? The refurb units never last. The X-clamps do not hold the heatsinks down tightly enough. This is a well known issue. I'd rather "risk" doing it myself than messing around with Microsoft for months at a time when I can't use my 360. I've been building my own computers and working on electronics for over 12 years now. With a little help from the internet and youtube I found videos on how to take your 360 apart. Like I said before it took me the first time about 2 hours and my 360 has been running for almost 150 hours straight now with NO problems. I think it's safe to say I know what I'm doing.

By the way... I could care less about the warranty because I bought it for $270 back in February off of a friend, so I don't think the warranty applies to me since I don't have the store receipt. I could be wrong though, I just don't care. You people can say whatever you want, but the fact remains, I have a working 360 now that works very well, and still cost me less than retail.

Last, for every one of Speaker Ender's story there must be at least ten more that have experienced similar CS. Are you really trying to argue that Microsoft cares about each and every one of their customers? That'd be one heck of an achievement if you could prove that.

Oh, well in that case, good for you. The fact that you know what you're doing helps. I was assuming that you didn't know what you were doing. And, all that jazz. Good job.

Soulbow

October 17th, 2007, 04:42 PM

Glad to hear that you are getting a new Xbox 360, and from what I've read it sounds like you had the worst customer service experience ever. I'm just wondering, did any of it have to do with translation problems on the customer support end?

EDIT: My next post will be post number 3000!

chibul

October 17th, 2007, 07:07 PM

So let me understand this right.

Because I upgraded to an Elite, there is no way my DRM issue will EVER be fixed??

So I get punished because I gave Microsoft an additional $450?

mihalik

October 17th, 2007, 07:35 PM

So I get punished because I gave Microsoft an additional $450?

"This is the policy as it stands currently. Sorry." -- Quote from Lucky 13 X (a Microsoft support employee) over in the xbox.com forums (http://forums.xbox.com/85/1159815/ShowPost.aspx#15015186).

Actually, he is talking about replacing a broken premium with an Elite. They don't support any transferring of licenses if you can't prove the original box was broken.

chibul

October 17th, 2007, 08:35 PM

"This is the policy as it stands currently. Sorry." -- Quote from Lucky 13 X (a Microsoft support employee) over in the xbox.com forums (http://forums.xbox.com/85/1159815/ShowPost.aspx#15015186).

Actually, he is talking about replacing a broken premium with an Elite. They don't support any transferring of licenses if you can't prove the original box was broken.

Which is even more ridiculous...especially with all the money I've put in. I've bought two 360s now, plus 44 XBLA games.

Wings OfForever

October 17th, 2007, 10:12 PM

They should link the marketplace downloads to your gamertag. :|

twistedsymphony

October 17th, 2007, 10:43 PM

They should link the marketplace downloads to your gamertag. :|

THEY DO!

the problem is that they DONT link it to your console after the first download.

meaning the only way to use it on a new console is to be logged into Xbox live with your gamertag.

it's not an issue for most but it is a problem for those of us with more than one account or those of us who share the console (and content) with a spouse or sibling, or those without constant net access.

Wings OfForever

October 17th, 2007, 11:48 PM

THEY DO!

the problem is that they DONT link it to your console after the first download.

meaning the only way to use it on a new console is to be logged into Xbox live with your gamertag.

it's not an issue for most but it is a problem for those of us with more than one account or those of us who share the console (and content) with a spouse or sibling, or those without constant net access.

Oh, so that's what the problem is. See, I didn't really understand it. But, what about your HD? Doesn't that store the information? Or, does it just store the infro from the first box you DLed the content from?

Ender Sai

October 18th, 2007, 02:35 PM

I hope you dont have the same experience('s) ive had with the rss team.
they twice promised me a brand new console and have sent me refurbed ones twice.
I tracked down the VP of customer services email and while i decided to keep the last refurb until it RRODs ive been told i can request a brand new model anytime i choose....im waiting for the falcon chipset with hdmi to put in my request.
hopefully i make it through mass effect.

good luck speaker

dietx

October 20th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Oh, so that's what the problem is. See, I didn't really understand it. But, what about your HD? Doesn't that store the information? Or, does it just store the infro from the first box you DLed the content from?

If you go and look on your "Memory" (HDD) for your 360, you'll see a little File called "Usage Rights." I may be wrong but i've always thought that that file is what allows content to be used on your xbox. Once you log onto xbox live, that file downloads again, via your download history so it allows you to play the games you unlocked. So i believe that file contains all the info on whether you own "Geometry Wars" (for example) or not.

P.S.: and too my experience, i have created another account, the one i use now and it can use ALL of the other games from my previous account. I dont know how that happens but i have 29 arcade titles to choose from, and now I can play them on an account that I did not purchase them from, as well as a friends account that doesn't even live near me. Just adding the two cents :D

And glad to hear its getting resolved Speaker, i've never had this problem (my room is always 40-50 degrees, i love the cold :D) but i know MS CS...sadly.

Wings OfForever

October 21st, 2007, 07:08 PM

If you go and look on your "Memory" (HDD) for your 360, you'll see a little File called "Usage Rights." I may be wrong but i've always thought that that file is what allows content to be used on your xbox. Once you log onto xbox live, that file downloads again, via your download history so it allows you to play the games you unlocked. So i believe that file contains all the info on whether you own "Geometry Wars" (for example) or not.

P.S.: and too my experience, i have created another account, the one i use now and it can use ALL of the other games from my previous account. I dont know how that happens but i have 29 arcade titles to choose from, and now I can play them on an account that I did not purchase them from, as well as a friends account that doesn't even live near me. Just adding the two cents :D

And glad to hear its getting resolved Speaker, i've never had this problem (my room is always 40-50 degrees, i love the cold :D) but i know MS CS...sadly.

Yea, I noticed that, too. I was always curious to know what it did. So, I never touched it. I once transfered UMK3 from my HD to a Memory Card and used it on my friends Xbox, fine. But, once my Gamertag was deleted, he couldn't use it. Kinda made him sad. lol

JO3MON

October 24th, 2007, 02:49 PM

ya dude i had somewhat the same issue with them
but it wasnt my xbox or content that i was calling about..
it was my acc. that i was calling about..
cuz this is the 5th acc. that i had been through cuz some dumb4SSes out there just loves hacking acc. and on two of mine acc. he bought about $600 worth of content on my acc.
(and thos were xbox acc. NOT a 360 acc.... and i was charged 4 360 content when i didnt have a 360 at that time...)
so now i made a 360 acc. with cc and it got hacked...
i made another with a pre-paid cc... it got hacked...
so now i have this one here made with the 360 month cards,, and i have no problems ... YET..
but i did call 1-800-4my-xbox each time 4 each acc.
and they did the same thing with you too .... the "investigation" and the "u will receive a call back soon"
i still havent heard NEthing yet!!!
(all that money wasted on the other acc.)

ToastyJO

October 24th, 2007, 06:26 PM

I'd send a package to Bill Gates with a fresh, moist turd.

Speaker Ender

October 24th, 2007, 07:34 PM

UPDATE: I should be receiving my repaired Xbox 360 tomorrow. I might not be able to get back in time, but they will attempt again on Friday if I miss it tomorrow.

So by Friday, I should be back in the game!

UPDATE: It arrived on November 2nd... later than expected, but I'M BAAAACK!

hamr77

October 25th, 2007, 12:54 AM

Speaker I to have had a very very similar story with Xbox right down to the take my first console back to future shop and getting another one after playing 10 hrs of oblivion. Having to start fresh then less then a year later I get the 3 red lights. They send me another console in record time about 6 days this one a refurbished one lasts maybe 2 hours then 3 red lights again. Phone them right away they put me on hold to enter more info and hang up on me. I call back and get a very helpful agent who informs me that I qualify for a brand new console and a choice of a DVD controller a wireless controller or one of 3 games pg3 piñata party or arcade unplugged. I ask for another controller. He then informs me that I should have my new console in hand by 5 days he would put a high rush on things. The box arrives in 2 days console mailed the same day arrives the following day at the repair site I follow this by the tracking # however from there I must now rely on 1-800 to tell me my status. This is where your story and mine really ring loud I am hung up on twice on hold for 2 hrs total in one day, spoke with a very rude and unprofessional agent that cannot tell me anything I don't already know. Then when I get home from work I phone again to find out that I will be getting a refurb not a new console as promised 1 week earlier and it was going to take another 2 weeks to get my broke system back.. I then ask to speak to a supervisor placed on hold for 30 mins and then no one answers I call back and ask to speak to someone high up. Placed on hold for another 10 mins and then a tier 2 agent comes on and quotes his binder protocol... He also informs me the same thing that the 1 agent before told me that I would have to wait and was not getting a new console. Now I was not mad that it was going to take so long, the thing that made me most upset was that I was getting the same console back not a new one. Now whats to say the same thing doesn't happen again and I no longer have a warranty? All and all it looks as though I will be console less for 2 months and my daughter can not watch her Dora DVDs. Xbox really needs to work on this problem and fast I too sang the praises of Micro. However this problem has put a serious damper on it

mini macho man

November 4th, 2007, 07:30 AM

uh oh im using them right now, this wont be good.

Fafhrdd

November 6th, 2007, 12:42 PM

I am completely taken back by this whole thing. I have read your article and all the messages in this thread. I am really wondering what is going on now?

They stated that you would get it back by no later then Nov 2nd but it's the 6th now....

Did you get your Xbox 360 back and can you use all of your content that you downloaded?

I send you an e-mail but unsure if you check that account...

Thanks!

I PuRe LucK l

November 28th, 2007, 04:11 PM

Dude i'm really glad you wrote this the same thing is happening to me...except WITH ALL of my conetnt regardless what box...about 250 dollars worth...everytime i call they say theyll call me back when investigation is complete or contact by e-mail...its been almost a month now and nothing....im glad i read this cause im gonna stop callin back...except maybe once to let them have it. MS is a collective of crooks....

I PuRe LucK l

November 28th, 2007, 04:30 PM

honestly dude you should sue them...that woudl clear teh way for everyone else to get there stuff back...because YOU WOULD WIN...and I would have your babies cause like I said Im out 200 or more bucks

Millasmama1

December 15th, 2007, 11:19 PM

I can honestly say that the XBOX 360 customer support has absolutely NOT fixed the falling through the cracks issue. I am now beginning month 4 of my 3 lights repair order. I can detail many dates, and certainly more than 2 experiences with being hung up on.

I could go on and on about how I also toughed the virtues of MS as a whole and defended the company. I also feel that even though I have spent thousands on XBOX/Microsoft and Xbox 360 equipment and development software I don't deserve special treatment either. Being treated like a human being on the other hand would be a welcome change.

Apparently I initially called to get the repair order going and was timely sent a prepaid shipping box. The assistor was courteous and even apologized the whole process would take 3 to 4 weeks. I promptly returned the box via my local UPS store in person on 9/14/07.

I allowed the time allotted and chose not to pester the repair center before the timeframe elapsed. On the 6th week, I decided to call to see why I hadn't heard anything. And my journey began...

First it my console could not be located, then 3 days later when I checked back it had been received on 9/29/07 (approx a month before the call). Excellent, I am a fairly patient person, please fix it and send it to me. No problem I was assured, I would get an email with a tracking # in 3 - 5 days (the infamous 3 - 5 days).

Having not received an email, I called to check in after a week. Now I apparently have multiple repair orders and they need my SN. I can't believe I am admitting this, but I do not have it. I provided it to the guy setting up the initial service repair # and shipped it off. I did however have the SR#, that didn't seem to matter. I am assured that I will get a call back to resolve the issue within 24 hours.

No call after 3 days so I called back and was transferred to tier 2 rep that told me that I was also being investigated as it appeared that since I had multiple consoles to be repaired I was some kind of covert xbox360 reseller - please. This was the first time I had EVER used Xbox repair service. My prior repairs (because of the initial XBOX consoles bad disk drive issue) were after warranty and had to fix it on my own. I am told that I must fax my receipt to the repair center. To prove this is my Xbox.

I comply 2 days later after much searching for the receipt. For 5 days MS could not find the fax, on the 6th day it was be found but I was told that I faxed it 3 days later than I did and that I must have been "mistaken" about when the previously "unnecessary" receipt was sent. I happen to have the confirmation page here. Apparently I can't read either.

I was told the service center had the fax and that I needed to wait 3 -5 days for an update. I received a an email the following week stating the repair is completed and I would receive a follow up email with a tracking number.

Two weeks and several calls later, including 3 disconnected calls, tier 1, 2, and 3 reps repeatedly saying that they were waiting on word from the service center. I explained that I had gotten an email that it was repaired. They said that they did not have a record of that. I finally lost it and demanded that the 2 and 1/2 months, the receipt, the calls should be enough info to get the xbox360 back to me and that I expected the repaired console to be sent.

On 11/29/07 I got what I asked for. A console arrived on my door (at least the UPS man did). I was given a COD bill for 2 way shipping of the console. The console was returned to me with out being repaired (as I later found out) and a bill for shipping to boot. I refused the package that day, I immediately called. I after an incredible amount waiting, I was told that the record showed Xbox 360 was tampered with and that it was no longer under warranty. No FREAKING way! I would never break the sacred seal, it's like throwing away the equipment. I am begining to wonder if the Xbox that was "found" more than a month after I sent it was even mine.

I am assured by the tier 3 rep (calling herself a manager, not a supervisor) that I did the right thing by returning the box and that a repair would be expedited and sent back immediately.

It has now been 17 days since I was given that assurance. I have called 3 times in the interim. They can say that was received back at the service center 8 days after it was refused but they have not been updated please wait another 3 - 5 business days for and update. The 1st called was disconnected by the assistor after 2 hours of hold - no exaggeration there. The second call say still no update. The third call says that they have no way to give me a timeframe for repair. So I am waiting... Eternally...

If there are safeguards in place, I can't say that I have noticed. Worse yet I have no recourse and my warranty is now up (even though 3 lights shouldn't apply).

Does anyone have any ideas here?

Millasmama1

December 15th, 2007, 11:23 PM

Sorry about the long post - trying not to loose it here.

Thanks

parsnipnose3000

December 18th, 2007, 03:57 PM

Well, I am on my 8th 360, and 2nd Elite!!

My midnight launch one froze by 1am, and my longest lasting one died a week or two ago after surviving 6 months.

I had about 30,000 Ms points credited back in June, but they say they don't do that anymore.

aitalianmafia

December 23rd, 2007, 03:29 AM

Well if your profile is messed up or got stolen you would be better on your own trying to get it back !!

Speaker Ender

December 28th, 2007, 09:26 PM

Just a quick update:

I received a new and WORKING console on November 2nd thanks to some help from Major Nelson...

...and it died on Christmas Eve!!! It started popping up an error whenever I would put a game in: "To play this game, put it in an Xbox 360 console." So, once again, my 360 is off to MS land, and hopefully I will have better luck with my FIFTH console!

I called the extension for the Customer Service Specialist who I had been referred to by MN, and he told me that he will rush this through the process and even overnighted me my FedEx box (with Overnight selected for the return shipment too), and told me that it wouldn't take more than 2-3 days before my replacement is shipped, so hopefully I'll be back in the game shortly.

Normally, I'd be excited--since my wife got me Rock Band for Christmas, and my dad got me Guitar Hero III--but now it's somewhat bittersweet.

al capOWNage

December 30th, 2007, 01:00 AM

I wish I had my own customer service specialist :p Guess you gotta go through hell twice to get one, hehe

Speaker Ender

December 30th, 2007, 02:51 AM

It's definitely useful. Fortunately, for the next couple weeks I am far too busy too allow myself to be distracted by Rock Band, so it's almost as if my console took itself out of the picture so I could get some work done!

glenn819

January 2nd, 2008, 12:40 PM

Sounds enjoyable. I hope my 360 never brakes :)

Saikred

January 14th, 2008, 09:23 AM

I am new to these forums but I cannot do any more than sympathise with you Speaker Ender.

Personally I've been plagued by my own run of 360 Death... my first lasted 6 months and was replaced fine, my second it took me around 2 months to get back. My third they told me that I would have to pay for it, which I was disgusted at since I'd had this one for around 3 months. After around 3 hours on the phone to Customer Support I was told by a supervisor that the rep was incorrect and there would be no charge... DAMN RIGHT THERE WON'T

Then I got it back... was working fine for 5 months and we come to 3 days before christmas (I just happen to have gotten a loooad of new games) and I get the damn RRoD again. I phone MS and say "This is bloody stupid... can't you just send me one that won't flippin break"?

Went out... bought an Elite (Which is working fine for 1 month, no issues (touch-wood)) and sold the one they sent back to me.
Not quite as much of a struggle as you've had but I am sooo annoyed with the way MS do this that I'm almost (Almost :P) close to getting a PS3 and being rid of it.

AuS MuRdA

March 27th, 2008, 05:37 PM

i think ive had the worst luck with xbox 360 accout hacked 3 times 7 broken consoles banned 3 to 4 time 4 no reason ok maybe 1 was for a reason lol but when i rang ms up about my account being hacked the guy sead there nothing we can do but delete your gamercard i sead mannnnnnnnnnn 71000 gamerscore 60+ arcade games do somthing anything plz he sead...........................................ok how bout a one month free gold card i sead.....................mother@#%@#$ then he sead.......................i apolgize sir. anyway ms time to fix this crap

parsnipnose3000

March 27th, 2008, 07:40 PM

I wonder if changing your gamertag would work, as it might put the hackers off the scent.

Why were you banned?

I am on my 9th 360 now!!!

AuS MuRdA

March 29th, 2008, 11:52 PM

i was banned 4 my motto or bio and my name has changed 3 to 4 times in the last 8 weeks

Wings OfForever

March 30th, 2008, 12:12 AM

i was banned 4 my motto or bio and my name has changed 3 to 4 times in the last 8 weeks

There's gotta be a reason why they're doing that to you....Stop making idiotic names?

The Gamertagler

May 6th, 2008, 05:06 PM

Holy s****, Speaker Ender! Wow, I can't believe that actually happened. Wow, that sucks so much. The worst thing that's happened to me was the "Red Ring Of Death" (3 Red Lights), and that was over a year after I bought my 360, but I got all my stuff back. Man, I feel sorry for you. Hope everything will get straightened out. ;)

Speaker Ender

May 9th, 2008, 11:29 PM

I have just started a new thread for my most recent update: http://www.achieve360points.com/forums/showthread.php?p=764127

Okay, this is to the point of absolute absurdity! As if this (http://www.achieve360points.com/articles/my-experience-with-18004myxbox/) wasn't enough, I just had Xbox 360 #6 die.

The fourth Xbox 360 that Major Nelson helped me to get, died shortly after, and I had it repaired (note REPAIRED--not replaced) within a week. A few months later, it started freezing, and he helped me get that one repaired quickly as well. Now today, less than 45 days after getting it back, it freezed while playing Texas Hold 'Em. You know? The graphical XBLA cpu hog that is poker!! When I restarted, the lights come on, but nothing happens--no RRoD or anything.

I cannot even express my frustration at this point! I'll make a video showing what is happening sometime this weekend... I'm just ****ed and want to vent right now.

BullDog53

July 19th, 2008, 08:46 AM

wow i feel bad for you

william rozar

July 21st, 2008, 10:42 PM

Yes, you are right.
______________________
william rozar
http://www.widecircles.biz

DesertPunk

November 7th, 2008, 06:03 AM

Alright.
Well its been a good 7 or 8 months since anyones posted here, but I mist say that my friend Brian has had it just as bad.

After going through 2 xbox's with hardly any issues with customer support. When Halo 3 came out he bought the Halo 3 Xbox and kept his 2nd xbox. He used his 2nd xbox for the time being and when that one broke, he sent it back in and got a replacemet.

He was using his halo 3 xbox and hasnt really had a problem with it since.

But the real problem is when his account got hacked.

Ofcourse Microsoft promises safety? He had his credit card linked to the account. (See where this is going?) The guy who hacked it charged up exactly 36,600 points.

So he calls up 1-800-4MY-XBOX and goes through the tedious process of hearing that they cant do anything about it.

Well, the guy who hacked it never changed the password so he "hacked" his account back and changed the pass. Now he calls up Microsoft telling them that he ran up the bill on his credit card.

WELL, now since he has his account back, customer support is reluctant to believe he didnt just charge the credit himself; They wouldn't even take the card off the system for him! So, after a week or so he gives up with Microsoft and calls American Express in which they proceed to tell him that they cant do anything about it.

Somewhere along the line, one of them dropped SOME of the charges, but he still had to pay $500! HE DIDNT EVEN DO ANYTHING!

Speaker Ender

November 8th, 2008, 07:48 PM

Perezco 117

November 14th, 2008, 02:52 AM

He's had it just as bad? I am now on my 12th Xbox--with a 13th on the way. My Elite (which I got to replace my Premium) and Premium both died within 2 days of each other. Elite w/ a 1 red light E74 error and my Premium with a disc read problem.

I could sometimes get the Premium to play discs if I inserted and removed them enough times, so I sent the Elite in first. I just got the Elite back, and am now sending in the Premium.

I just found a Halo 3 Secial Edition console at Fry's for $169, and am hoping that one doesn't have problems. At least now I have 3, so if 2 ever die again, I'll be set! *eyeroll*

Kyle, what exactly do you do with your Xbox's? I mean, either you abuse them, store them in a hardly ventilated area, got some messed up electrical output, live on an ol' Mi'kmaq indian burialground or just happen to get the worst batch of all consoles made.

Either way man, I hope you find your true one Xbox that will last. :) I am glad to have only had some minor malfunctions with mine.

Speaker Ender

November 14th, 2008, 06:13 PM

Kyle, what exactly do you do with your Xbox's? I mean, either you abuse them, store them in a hardly ventilated area, got some messed up electrical output, live on an ol' Mi'kmaq indian burialground or just happen to get the worst batch of all consoles made.

Either way man, I hope you find your true one Xbox that will last. :) I am glad to have only had some minor malfunctions with mine.

I honestly believe that the problem is that I keep getting refurbished units back. They're well ventilated, but I do leave them on alot. I use them as Media Extenders. I don't know what the problem is. They DO get alot of use, though...

neon havoc

November 21st, 2008, 10:52 AM

lolololol that is teh suck

jtmoniz

November 21st, 2008, 04:12 PM

1-800-4MY-XBOX could not tell me why I lost all of my offline profile information.
It took a while, but I eventually found out that if you change your offline name all of your info gets glitched. Ach's go to 00, game saves go buh-by, entered info gets lost, etc..
Let this be a warning to all of you that have an offline profile. Don't change the name on your offline profile.

Mr BoyFreshness

December 3rd, 2008, 08:15 AM

They Need To Hire Employees Who Speack Fluent English And Have Some Idea What They Are Talking About. I Have To Tell Them My Problem 3 Or 4 Times And They Repeat It Back To Me Incorrectly. Its Annnnoying As Helllll

Speaker Ender

December 3rd, 2008, 05:51 PM

Why do you capitalize every word?

Mr BoyFreshness

December 3rd, 2008, 10:28 PM

I Have O.C.D. *****aaaaa

OscarTheFrog

December 11th, 2008, 11:31 AM

Hmmm sounds good but was he aroused?

Breadman94

December 31st, 2008, 09:35 PM

I have had no luck w/ those "agents" at M$. I do think they have note cards that say if a dude says this, say this, and get them off the phone before we actually help them. I know i had a thread about this but I called in cuz when my disc tray snapped (for no reason) It killed my rock band disc. They guy was like " Ita musta beena faulty disker, weez cont do anythings fors yous". I swear that is how he talked......

Pedle Zelnip

January 9th, 2009, 09:31 AM

My latest experience:

I have 2 360's, a pro, and an Arcade console. I purchased the arcade in December of 2007 during a pre-christmas sale and used it as my primary 360 during 2008. In late november of 2008, I started getting not the 3 red lights (the RROD), but rather a single flashing red light in the bottom right corner, and a message on the TV saying an error code (E74) and that I needed to contact support.

I called up support and went through the usual procedure to verify my warranty, etc. Note that because it was a single red light only the one year warranty applied, not the 3-year "three flashing red lights" policy. This meant that time was a bit tight. In fact, when I contacted support I had about 1 week left on my warranty.

Anyhow, after making it through the usual BS automated service, I got put on hold trying to be put through to a CS agent. I was on hold for a whole hour before I decided that I have a life, and hung up.

I then thought, what the hell, let's try something. And called back and instead of going through the automated stuff of "what's your console", "what seems to be the problem" etc, I just repeatedly kept saying "customer service", and I was immediately put straight through to a CS agent who spoke fluent English.

He was actually quite helpful, and I got my repair order in just a few minutes.

Then I realized a complication. I called on November 27, 2008, and was told that the console would be returned in 2-3 weeks. I was leaving for christmas holidays in 2 weeks. And since it's shipped by courier, if there's nobody around to pick the package up, it'll eventually get shipped back to MS. Problem, as I couldn't just wait until I was back (remember the warranty expired in a week).

So I called them back again, this time didn't get a fluent English speaker but one of the usual outsourced CS agents. I explained my situation, and over the course of about a half-hour to 40 minutes on the phone, arranged to have my 360 shipped to a friends place instead. That way it'd be picked up by them, they could hold onto it until I was back from holidays. Great, problem solved.

I sent my 360 in the following Monday (Dec 1st), and left for holidays 2 weeks later on the 15th. On the 17th, while away on holidays I recieved the confirmation e-mail from MS stating that they had finally recieved my console. Why it took 2 weeks to get from Victoria, BC, Canada to the service center when shipped by UPS is beyond me.

Since they now had it, I thought I'd check my repair status on the website like they suggest. Only problem was that there were no "consoles registered with my account". Entering my service # and postal code didn't get me anywhere either. ****, now I knew I'd have to call them once I got back. Way to **** on my holiday MS.

I got back from holidays on Dec 31st, 2008, and still had not yet heard anything about my console being shipped back. So IOW, I had made the alternate shipping arrangements for nothing.

I then waited until today (January 9th 2009, more than a full month after it was shipped) and called them back to find out what the hell was going on with my 360. After being put on hold a couple times by the CS agent, he eventually told me that my console was still at the service center and it'd be done in a week. I then asked if that was 1 week until it's fixed and will be shipped to me, or 1 week until I actually have my 360 back, he then fumbled a bit with "ah, uhm", and said "trust me it'll be shipped in 1 week".

So assuming he's right (and I doubt he is, I fully expect to be calling them again next week), and you assume say a week for shipping time back to me, then my 360 will have been gone for almost 8 weeks by the time it's returned. Keep in mind that I did the "pack my own 360 in a box to improve repair times" option, so I shudder to think about what would've happened if I had to wait for them to send me a box to ship it in.

Pedle Zelnip

January 23rd, 2009, 04:10 PM

The latest on my repair status:

So it was 2 weeks ago today that I called 1-800-4MY-XBOX and was told that my console would be repaired in one week. I still have received no console, nor any e-mail notifying me that the console has been repaired.

So today I called back at about 3:00PM (PST), and surprisingly was put through to a customer service rep rather quickly (within a couple minutes).

The CS rep took my name, reference #, address, postal code, phone number, and e-mail, and then put me on hold to check my records.

I sat on hold for about 3 minutes before she came back and said that they were still looking into the matter and asked if I could be put on hold again.

I then sat on hold for another 5 minutes or so, when she came back and informed me she was consulting with her supervisor, and again asked for me to remain on hold.

I then spent another 10 minutes on hold, before she finally came back and informed me that my case has been escalated and I was to be getting a phone call from customer service on Monday. She confirmed my phone number and an appropriate time for the call.

I then asked if there was a reason for the extremely (almost 2 months now) holdup. She then said that the case had been escalated and to rest assured it would be resolved. I then told her that I understood that but that my question was what the reason for the holdup was. She then said that it might possibly have been that the console was shipped, that nobody picked it up, and it was thus returned (note that she didn't say that this *was* what happened, just that that's what *could* have happened).

I then informed her that no shipping notice was received at the address it was to be shipped to, and that I had not received any e-mail saying that the repair was completed.

She then assured me again that it would be resolved and that I could expect a phone call on Monday.

At this point I'm almost starting to consider legal avenues. 2 months is completely inexcusable, and moreover I've been given no real explanation as to why the delay. We shall see what happens on Monday.

Pedle Zelnip

February 3rd, 2009, 08:22 PM

One final followup:

The technician called on Sunday, not Monday, so I missed the call and instead got a message on my machine saying that the console was being repaired and they'd send one when the repairs were done. Still no explanation at all of time.

Monday I got another call, but before the pre-arranged time so I again wasn't home to take it, but informed me that the console had been repaired and was about to be shipped out. I then also got an e-mail confirmation of this.

Thursday I received yet another call when I wasn't home, with a message that the console had been shipped and if I wanted the tracking number I was to call them to get it.

Finally, today, the 360 arrived exactly 2 months and 2 days after I originally sent it off. But get this: it came to my home address instead of the address I had arranged to have it shipped to.

I gotta say that this is about the most incompetent CS experience I've gone through, which surprised me. The last time I sent my 360 in it was maybe 2 weeks start to finish turnaround time. This time it was 2 months+, and keep in mind that this time I supplied my own box (I didn't have them send me one) to try and cut back on repair times.

I got the token 1 month gold card with the console, and of course its a different console (an older one, but with an HDMI port which the one I sent in didn't have). I'm fairly certain that this is a model which has had it's DVD drive replaced, as the front is the white tray of the arcade model, but given the mnfr date on the back, the console itself has to be a pro (arcade's didn't start getting HDMI ports until recently).

But at long last, it's over. This procedure represented a huge waste of time and energy and I'm already dreading the next time I have to send one in (which in all liklihood won't happen, as I doubt this one they sent me will fail in 90 days, and my other one is no longer under warranty). So once the two consoles in my possession both go I'll likely be faced with the choice of either buying another 360, or retiring from the world of Xbox gaming.

I tell ya, when the 720 comes out, if I hear even the slightest inkling of hardware problems with it I'm going to avoid the thing like the plague.